Curse

gremlin · Nov 27, 2010, 11:30 PM // 23:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morphy

Lol, anyone can farm ecto's/ambraces. Those areas stopped being a challenge a long time ago. Cut the crap, man.

That isn't strictly true I am afraid.
If farming ectos ambracers wasn't a challenge everybody would be doing it.

If everybody was doing it then no one would be buying them.

If no one was buying them then no one would be selling them the price would be very low and they would be no use in trade.

Because farming them is outside the ability or playing time of a large proportion of the player base they are worth farming for the rest.

Xenomortis · Nov 27, 2010, 11:44 PM // 23:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by gremlin

If farming ectos ambracers wasn't a challenge everybody would be doing it.

I certainly wouldn't.
And no, it isn't really a challenge.

Still Number One · Nov 28, 2010, 12:27 AM // 00:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by gremlin

That isn't strictly true I am afraid.
If farming ectos ambracers wasn't a challenge everybody would be doing it.

I can't speak about armbraces because I've never tried, but farming for ectos is extremely easy. Chaos Ledge Farming is pretty much the easiest thing I've ever done in this game. The reason some people don't farm ecto isn't because they can't. It is because they either don't want to or don't know how.

It really isn't difficult to do in the least bit and anybody that cares enough to do it can.

Mia Clemons · Nov 28, 2010, 12:30 AM // 00:30

I think everyone is failing to see consequences of this.
YES, i agree that having over 100k on my person would be nice, however, increasing the cap on the amount of money you can store in your chest or person would only lower the price of transferable materials (ectos).

Consider the scenario:

A wealthy player who has 10 stacks of ectos and 1,000k in his Xunlai chest (among other things).
If the cap were to be increased to 5,000k, the smart wealthy player would thus want to sell most of his ecto to max out that 5,000k in his vault (gold will always be worth more then tradeable materials due to its nature). Imagine every wealthy player in the game does this, at least to some degree. The result would be a shift in market prices for all items that required payments above 100k, which from an economic standpoint would result in inflation of gold and a significant decrease in the price of ectos (possibly making them close to worthless)

In essence, this idea while seemingly harmless would cause market instability, which Anet does NOT want to deal with and neither do we as players. (Imagine if the United States Stock Market crashed again, while this scenario is on a lesser scale, the result would be similar.)

im sorry to say but i must....

/notsigned

NerfHerder · Nov 28, 2010, 12:48 AM // 00:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by lemming

I'm not sure if you realize that increasing the gold cap would cause ectos to "fluctuate" more than it has the entire time since Shadow Form came out.

I do and personally dont care if ectos turn into the price of pre HoM shards. It's a rare material used for crafting, thats all it should be.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lemming

Also, this has nothing to do with gold selling.

It would make all the ectos they farmed turn into ash, and that would make me smile. But they would just sell gold, Zkeys, Armbraces, etc. So you have a point, it is probably a seperate issue. But, there is a reason why they prefer ectos. A better system of trading could prove useful in tracking gold sellers.

I have alot of money(to me its alot of money) invested in ectos, over a stack, that I converted from gold just to keep from going over the bank/player cap. So I have some potential loss here as well. But I feel, a better system is out there. And if I have to take a hit in order to make a better system, so be it. Its not like I cant farm more gold just from playing the game. Or should I be grinding ectos day in day out instead of earning cash the fun way(playing the game)?

If there is a better soution than a real Auction House/Marketplace, what I or others suggested, or "Its fine the way it is." I would like to hear it.

MithranArkanere · Nov 28, 2010, 01:34 AM // 01:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

I certainly wouldn't.
And no, it isn't really a challenge.

You are wrong. It's an incredible challenge.
Do you think anyone normal can stand such BOREDOM for so long?
Farming repetitively like many people do would drive me insane.

Yeah, a 5 years old could do it, but even a 5 years old would get bored after a couple of hours.

And hands hurt too.

Xenomortis · Nov 28, 2010, 02:04 AM // 02:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

You are wrong. It's an incredible challenge.
Do you think anyone normal can stand such BOREDOM for so long?

I understand World of Warcraft is very successful.

Winterclaw · Nov 28, 2010, 02:08 AM // 02:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mia Clemons

which from an economic standpoint would result in inflation of gold and a significant decrease in the price of ectos (possibly making them close to worthless)

I was about to chime in that this was a stupid idea until I read this. Now I'm completely for raising the cap to 10,000,000 in the vault and 1,000,000 in person.

Haggis of Doom · Nov 28, 2010, 04:42 AM // 04:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mia Clemons

(Imagine if the United States Stock Market crashed again, while this scenario is on a lesser scale, the result would be similar.)

Yeah. We'll have unemployment and starvation. Wait... what?

All this will do is make really rich people less rich. Which isn't a bad thing since they are either:

- Good at getting rich (power traders, farmers with a brain who know how to adapt) in which case they will get even richer in no time, or;
- Lamers who had a lot of time abusing a broken build they copied from PvX and who cry after a nerf, in which case we don't care about them.

The really poor (either bad at making money or very casual players) will finally get a chance at getting Obsidian armor, which isn't very pretty on many professions to begin with thus overpriced. Nothing wrong with a bit of forced communism with virtual goods.

Lanier · Nov 28, 2010, 05:39 AM // 05:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

And no, it isn't really a challenge.

When it comes to farming, the most challenging thing is being able to force yourself through the monotony and repetitiveness. It may not be the type of "challenge" that you or morphy meant, but it is a challenge none-the-less, and I find it very challenging trying to force myself to go farm ectos.

Morphy · Nov 28, 2010, 08:32 AM // 08:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by gremlin

That isn't strictly true I am afraid.
If farming ectos ambracers wasn't a challenge everybody would be doing it.

If everybody was doing it then no one would be buying them.

If no one was buying them then no one would be selling them the price would be very low and they would be no use in trade.

Because farming them is outside the ability or playing time of a large proportion of the player base they are worth farming for the rest.

UW: SoS rit

DoA: DwG

Both areas have builds that any monkey can play. Unless you want to claim there are people who can't play these builds?

People don't farm these areas because they have better things to do. Believe it or not, there actually are people who play this game without the intent of earning virtual cash. Hard concept to grasp, I know. Ecto's have value because they take a lot of time to farm, time that most people prefer to spend on things they enjoy more. And because they're used as valuta, obv.

Dewshine Wildclaw · Nov 28, 2010, 10:05 AM // 10:05

/signed
Ectos are a crafting material... not a currency. Or thats how it should be.
I don't expect to ever hit the cap on the xunlai, but that doesn't matter.
Ecto as a third tier of currency sucks imo.

So I guess Im in for this mainly for better easier trade.
If I sell something worth more than 100k I want gold not ecto. If I buy something worth more than 100k I want to be able to pay with gold not ecto.

yitjuan · Nov 28, 2010, 10:53 AM // 10:53

wouldn't the large availability of gold WITHOUT gold sinks drive the eventual prices of everything else up? I suppose it really doesn't matter if the price of a year 1 mini goes up to 50k each , because who collects minis anyway?

Xenomortis · Nov 28, 2010, 12:06 PM // 12:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lanier

When it comes to farming, the most challenging thing is being able to force yourself through the monotony and repetitiveness. It may not be the type of "challenge" that you or morphy meant, but it is a challenge none-the-less, and I find it very challenging trying to force myself to go farm ectos.

Well if you keep moving the goalposts nobody can get anywhere...
If something doesn't require any ability to get through then it simply cannot be a challenge. Doing anything many times over is dull, but I know many people who are willing to spend several hours going at it during events.
The reason why I don't ever farm is because it is dull, but that doesn't impart challenge, that just adds a requirement for extra motivation.

Quote:

Originally Posted by yitjuan

wouldn't the large availability of gold WITHOUT gold sinks drive the eventual prices of everything else up? I suppose it really doesn't matter if the price of a year 1 mini goes up to 50k each , because who collects minis anyway?

Gold sinks aren't being removed. The existence of gold sinks which net useful things is pretty much the only reason why gold is actually used as a currency - it still has use. An example where this isn't the case is Diablo II - Gold is not used at all in trades (and the cap is fairly large).

Increasing the cap will, at best, cause ectos to deflate. I certainly don't see any reason as to why assests will inflate.

gremlin · Nov 28, 2010, 02:55 PM // 14:55

Ok so anyone can farm ectos its easy fair enough.

So anyone can run some kind of solo build and get them if they really really wanted them, of course it will take a bit of practice and maybe a few failures but yes it can be done.

And eventually they will be able to farm away and spend all their available game time farming perhaps some night getting a couple of ectos and other times getting a dozen or more.
They will probably lose the will to live turn to alcohol or just get rsi.

But back to the original point it shouldn't be needed.
The whole reason the game designers put gold and platinum into the game was for ease of trading.
They never imagined it would need altering as they never thought some items would become so valuable to the players.

As we all know it takes them a while to correct mistakes so fixing the money system by altering the cap or adding a new coin after 5 years is by no means unusual.
Some parts of the game have needed fixing for almost as long.

*lemming* · Nov 28, 2010, 09:52 PM // 21:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by NerfHerder

I do and personally dont care if ectos turn into the price of pre HoM shards. It's a rare material used for crafting, thats all it should be.

It would make all the ectos they farmed turn into ash, and that would make me smile. But they would just sell gold, Zkeys, Armbraces, etc. So you have a point, it is probably a seperate issue. But, there is a reason why they prefer ectos. A better system of trading could prove useful in tracking gold sellers.

I have alot of money(to me its alot of money) invested in ectos, over a stack, that I converted from gold just to keep from going over the bank/player cap. So I have some potential loss here as well. But I feel, a better system is out there. And if I have to take a hit in order to make a better system, so be it. Its not like I cant farm more gold just from playing the game. Or should I be grinding ectos day in day out instead of earning cash the fun way(playing the game)?

If there is a better soution than a real Auction House/Marketplace, what I or others suggested, or "Its fine the way it is." I would like to hear it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winterclaw

I was about to chime in that this was a stupid idea until I read this. Now I'm completely for raising the cap to 10,000,000 in the vault and 1,000,000 in person.

It's pleasant to see that people think that games should be balanced around players' spite.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

You are wrong. It's an incredible challenge.
Do you think anyone normal can stand such BOREDOM for so long?
Farming repetitively like many people do would drive me insane.

Yeah, a 5 years old could do it, but even a 5 years old would get bored after a couple of hours.

And hands hurt too.

You missed the point.

tldr: Some people have more money than others. Get used to it.

Mia Clemons · Nov 29, 2010, 06:43 AM // 06:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Haggis of Doom

Yeah. We'll have unemployment and starvation. Wait... what?

If you've studied American History at all, you would know that unemployment and starvation were NOT the immediate results of the Stock Market crash. The important consequences of the market crash were: 1) A serious lack of faith in the economy, which lead to market instability, and 2) The value of the dollar collapsed to the point that the government HAD to step in.

My analogy was, by increasing the overall supply of gold to the degree that is mentioned in here, you would effectively be creating a similar situation to that of the market crash.

/notsigned again

Lensor · Nov 29, 2010, 12:08 PM // 12:08

The percentage of players who are rich enough to max out all gold holding capability (1.8 million if typical 8-character account) is very small, whereas the economic implication of increasing the holding limit would be very large.

Bascially this change would have small potential gain but large potential risk.

Not worth it.
/notsigned.

Rushin Roulette · Nov 29, 2010, 12:53 PM // 12:53

Signed at increasing the personal cap to 500K and the Storage capacity to 5000K, but not signed to increasing the per trade cap above 100K.

Im not saying that because im super rich (With around 30e in storage im not really anywhere near in the league of Panda/ Island guardian Traders... not that Im adverse to someone donating one to me

), but because it would seriously screw over the economy if 2/4 of the tradeable objects (Gold, Platinum, Ecto and Armbraces) were to suddenly drop in value.

You can see that in Armbraces at the moment from the addition of the HoM Calculator and the various DoA SC and non SC runs. Items that used to be worth 100 Armbraces are suddenly 400 Armbraces, meaning that the people who have been diligently saving up for ages to finally get those 100 Armbraces have suddenly been screwed over royally and the rich become even richer.

Increasing the trade cap and therefore devaluing Ectos will be hitting the wrong people (The ones whining themselves that they cant afford something etc. and everyone else who isnt whining but in the same situation).

gremlin · Nov 29, 2010, 03:47 PM // 15:47

Increasing the amount of gold you can keep in storage is of far less importance than the amount you can use in a single transaction.

I can always spread my wealth over all my characters or even other accounts if needed.
What is important is to be able so spend any amount in trade without having to resort to rare materials.
Presently the Underworld and some other elite areas are not used by many because they cannot take henchies there and so are limited to self + 3 heroes.

When we get full hero parties anyone will be able to take a full party of heroes into the elite areas and prices will change anyway.
I can only guess at what will happen to the prices once large numbers of players start farming for themselves.
They will not be as efficient as the solo or team builds currently working such areas but they will be there.

So just fix the currency so people can trade